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I’m not sure what you mean by “mostly in romaji” but every sentence in the Basic dictionary is written in both kanji/kana and romaji versions. The Intermediate and Advanced dictionaries are in kanji and kana only.
I own the ‘All About Particles’ book and that too has romaji for every sentence, so there’s no difference there. ‘A Dictionary of Japanese Grammar’ is a far more comprehensive book with much better grammatical explanations. Not only does it give numerous example sentences for every grammar point but also has examples of incorrect grammar/how not to do things (which is sometimes even more valuable!) and has lots of usage notes. It does a nice job of explaining nuance differences between similar grammar as well, which is something thoroughly lacking in most books. At over 600 pages it has far more content, compared to the 150 of All About Particles. Combined with the following two dictionaries in the series you will have over 2000 pages of grammar reference, not to mention the useful bonus articles and appendixes like the excellent 24 pages on improving reading comprehension and analyzing sentences accurately that’s found in the Intermediate Dictionary.
I own an assortment of Japanese reference and textbooks and I’d pick the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series over all of them if I had to choose the most useful and then get rid of the rest. I believe that everyone learning Japanese should probably own them.
@Elenkis: Oh, sorry, I must have been thinking of a different book. It’s been a while since I’ve looked at it, and I didn’t actually have a copy to look at when I said that. Yeah the dictionary has proper Japanese too. Seems a reasonable book. There were a couple of things I don’t like about it though. They really should have set the romaji to a smaller font – having it the same size as, if not bigger than, the proper sentences draws your eyes away from what you ought to be looking at. I’m not sure if you had the same romaji trouble as I had when you read the book, though, but I found it to be really annoying (not that I’ve read all that much of it yet). It’s layed out in alphabetical order – that makes it a good reference tool, but it’s not that helpful when you’re first learning. I think it would have been better if they’d put the entries in order of usefulness, commonness or even just grouped them together (like putting the conditionals together). Say if you wanted to learn vocabulary, you wouldn’t open a dictionary, start at “A” and work your way through – you’d be best using some sort of list like Core 6000 or Koichi’s anki decks.
All About Particles is a great book, and so is the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar. Kanzen Master and Japanese for Busy People are also quite nice. Really, you just gotta take a look at them in a bookshop or on Google Books and decide which one you think looks best. Perhaps even take a look at Tofugu’s reviews section (even though it’s kinda sparse at the moment).
I don’t find the romaji any more or less noticeable than it is in All About Particles and don’t really think it matters much in reference books. But then I find it significantly easier to read Japanese in kana and kanji than in romaji now anyway, so I barely even notice the romaji exists. I actually find romaji rather difficult to read as I have to think about it for a moment instead of just looking at it and knowing instantly.
It’s a dictionary so naturally it is in A-Z order and not whatever arbitrary order the author believes should be right (which is usually different in every book). It’s not a textbook you read cover to cover (though it wouldn’t hurt to do that) but a grammatical reference that you use when you come across a sentence that you don’t understand or have a question about. So being in an A-Z format is logical and easy to look up.
“Say if you wanted to learn vocabulary, you wouldn’t open a dictionary, start at “A” and work your way through – you’d be best using some sort of list like Core 6000 or Koichi’s anki decks.”
Right, but when you want to know what a word is you don’t go to your Anki deck and search through the cards trying to find it (if you even have it as a card).
I find that All About Particles doesn’t have enough depth or content to be useful to me, it glosses over the grammar with very little explanation and only includes particles. But I’m glad that others are getting some use out of it. I agree that going to a bookstore and looking through all the books is probably the best idea if possible.
She didn’t really specify whether she wanted a “learning” textbook or a “reference” textbook, so I guess the argument over the specific functionality of the book is pointless XD. I think I’m just judging the book from the perspective of someone who wants to use it to learn rather than JUST refer to it when needed. Both books are good for the same purpose and they each have good and bad points. I’d say the romaji in the Dictionary of Grammar is more obstrusive, but I guess that’s probably just me. You have to look at the book to see how it suits you individually.
(If you *did* want to look at your card in Anki, all you gotta do is type in the search bar. If you don’t have the card then *obviously* you’d look somewhere else :P. I’m not sure why you’d *want* to look at it in Anki though, unless you’ve maybe got a *fabulous* sentence associated with it.)
And you’d read “All About Particles” if you wanted to know “about particles” – it’s not really intended for the same role as the Dictionary of Grammar.
But anyway, this is a stupid argument like I’ve already said, so we should just leave it; it’s all down to her. And you’re probably more right than me in this case, just so you don’t think I’m trying to hide that fact and chicken out XD
LOL. I’ve been enjoying the conversation but didn’t mean to derail the thread. I’m looking for something more for learning than a reference book but not something that just rehashes what’s in Textfugu. The only bookstore I’ve found with Japanese material is Barnes and Noble and their selection is dismal. My library has almost nothing. So I need to order something, just need to decide what. Maybe just order something, anything, as most anything would be useful in some way. Thanks for the input!
“And you’d read “All About Particles” if you wanted to know “about particles” – it’s not really intended for the same role as the Dictionary of Grammar.”
Actually I would read A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar if I wanted to know about particles as it does that much better (compare its 7 pages on the を particle to the 3 in All About Particles) ;-p
All About Particles is also a reference book. It’s just ordered in a different way and only covers particles. It’s a reference book for particles. Neither of them are textbooks written to guide you through Japanese from beginner to advanced and neither of them are ordered for that purpose. For example All About Particles doesn’t cover the basic direct object marker を until half way through the book, after the likes of など and とか, yet the example sentences use it right from the beginning of the book. So it is clearly intended to be a reference.
By the way, you certainly can read DoBJG from cover to cover and learn an awful lot that way, but doing so would probably be a bit dry. I recommended DoBJG over a textbook because you already have a structured textbook here at Textfugu and Tae Kim’s website is a free solution that also covers things in a structured order.
However if you do want a physical book that’s more structured then I’d suggest looking either at Japanese the Manga Way (note: this not the same as ‘Japanese in Mangaland’, they are different books that people sometimes confuse) or the Genki series. I think ‘Japanese the Manga Way’ might be a better complement to Textfugu; it’s a grammar book, but a structured one and the usage of manga in examples adds something unique.
The first Genki book would likely cover a lot of same stuff you’ve learned on Textfugu and it’s expensive as you’re buying into a series. However combined with the workbooks it has the best exercises I’ve seen in a Japanese textbook series and once finished with Genki 2 you can move seamlessly on to An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese (or my personal favourite textbook: とびら) and then ‘Progressing from Intermediate to Advanced’. It’s great if you’re looking for a beginner to intermediate solution.
I still think you should own A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar though, even if you buy any of the other suggestions listed in this topic.
1. Increase the amount of kanji & kanji vocab I learn.
2. I need to learn more ‘small talk’ so I can converse better with a Japanese friend that I made.
3. I want to play the Japanese version of Persona 4 on the PS Vita when it comes out, so I’m hoping I’ll be able to understand some of it.
4. Understand the particles と、も、で a little bit better than I do now.I have about six months until that game comes out so I should be way more knowledgeable by then, if not I’ve done something wrong!
Doing fine this far, but I only have a little over a week to complete 7 lessons 0.o
I wonder if my brain can keep up with all the new vocab, but I feel confident that I can be done with S4 by the 24th october.1. Keep up with the Japanese homework my tutor sets me (or at least the parts I understand).
2. Review Anki once a day or whenever I have reviews.
3. Start and finish Season 1 of TextFugu by the end of this year.I have a Japanese tutor, I self learn Japanese, I have lots of School work (especially in my History GCSEs), a gaming life and a social life so I personally find my goals reasonable. :)
I’m going to study for one hour every day (at least) as well (except on Wednesdays as I have tutoring then) so I should be able to achieve this.
@Kaona: Since you’ve been self-learning (and have been going to a tutor) for god knows how long, Season 1 of Textfugu will take you at most a couple of hours, and it’ll all be stuff you already know (assuming your meaning the old format of Seasons). And anyway, what the hell have you been doing on TextFugu so long that you haven’t even finished Season 1 yet?! XD You’ve been here longer than *I* have! Surely you’ve learned です、でした and じゃありません already, right? :P If you haven’t, then I’d definitely find a new tutor… ;)
I mean, what is this I don’t even
Ehh, well I’m a perfectionist. :p
I will list my goals in order of importance…
1. Get my highschool diploma (i got really sick and ended up in the hospital for most of my highschool years)
2. Learn Japanese (i know this is generic but its better than having like…. 10 slots for parts of it)
3. Get my Bachelors Degree
4. Get My Masters Degree
5. Teach English in Japan
6. Teach at Tokyo UniversityNow so you all know I am going for my Highschool Diploma and Bachelors Degree at the same time while studying Japanese at college and on here… basically… I have no free time to myself XD study study study. I know these are long term goals and I know they are not easy but that is why I am striving so hard to accomplish them because My biggest Goal is to be an English Teacher at Tokyo University and I will do what ever I have to, to get there.
now if you want more short term goals… well ill make a small list for that.
1. Study for my Test Wednesday in Japanese
2. Learn the Verbs for my Japanese Class
3. Figure out what classes I need to take next quarter
4. Try and pass this Quarter with a 4.0so ya, those are some more short term goals of mine…
I’m still very new to the Japanese language, but my long term goal it to communicate well within two years. I finish my bachelors in two years from now, and the ability to work off base will open up many more opportunities. Expecially because we are considering asking to to be stationed at misaswa in the north of Japan or outside of Tokyo after Okinawa.
As far as short term goals, I would really like to pick up the pace that I have been working at. I currently study for 2-4 hours each day ( just japanese, my other classes not included) but would really like to utilize the time better.
I’m currently doing a chapter every two days or so and practicing my anki at least twice a day.
Depending how that goes I will either get a personal tutor or start with kumon at the end of the year. ( I just wanted to self teach at least the basics :) )
Does anyone have any suggestions on what a beginner in season two should pick up at a Japanese book store?
I’m at 795 kanji in RTK. I want to do 20/day – and 25/day on Saturdays/Sundays – to finish RTK before I take my first trip to Japan in December.
>I want to finish season 4 before my holiday is over(24. october)
Finally done with season 4, so I reached it in time :)
Now I have untill the end of this year to finish up everything else here on TextFugu. My goals remain the same:
I have 3 goals
- I want to keep studying my anki decks everyday
- I want to finish all TextFugu material by the end of this year(including anything that gets updated)
- Listen to more Japense, that be podcasts music or w/e :)GL to everyone else :) I will take a little break from chapters and do only reviews for a few days :D
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