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This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  vanandrew 11 years, 7 months ago.

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  • March 15, 2013 at 11:52 pm #39103

    vanandrew
    Member

    The progressive verbs lesson in TF has this as an example:

    “I am going to America’s Oregon State.” -
    アメリカのオレゴン州に行っています。

    Is that correct?
    I thought that 行っています doesn’t really translate as “going”.

    Thanks.

    March 16, 2013 at 1:50 am #39104

    Anonymous

    That would be, I am on the plane, currently in the act of going to Oregon

    I am going (in a month) or I am about to go/will go is just 行きます.

    March 16, 2013 at 2:53 pm #39113

    vanandrew
    Member

    Thanks.

    BTW – did you see Mark Hunt had a big win recently? Gold.

    March 17, 2013 at 12:52 am #39120

    Anonymous

    Yeah, dude’s impossible to knock out.

    March 18, 2013 at 5:11 pm #39144

    vanandrew
    Member

    I’ve just had a chance to go over this now, but from reading about 行っている on T Kim (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/teform) I got the impression “going”, as in “I am currently going”, was the incorrect way to use 行っている.

     

     

    March 19, 2013 at 6:11 am #39156

    Astralfox
    Member

    That’s a good point, I’m still a bit confused by this too. JPod 101 brings it up every now and again, ている can be translated as present progressive, or a continuing state depending on the context. For example; けっこんしている can mean ‘in the process of getting married’, or ‘in the state of being married’ (but I’ve never seen the てある form that Tae Kim’s guide says is for resultant states).

    So could 行っている be used for both; ‘in the act of going’, and ‘in the state of being gone’?

    Edit: I guess I have seen てある, but didn’t recognise it at the time.

    • This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by  Astralfox. Reason: てある
    March 20, 2013 at 1:03 pm #39172

    Astralfox
    Member

    Hmm, not even Joel stepped in? That’s worrying.

    March 20, 2013 at 5:13 pm #39177

    Joel
    Member

    Haven’t felt the need, so far. Also, I forgot I’d intended to respond. =P

    Basically, there’s two different types of verbs, the fancy names of which I’ve forgotten at the moment, but for the purposes of this post I’ll call “continual verbs” and “state verbs”. Continual verbs are things that happen over a period of time, or that take time to do, but tend to not leave an immediate obvious change, like running, eating, studying, et cetera – for these verbs, ている means “in the middle of doing it”.

    State verbs are things that happen once, and in doing so change the state of the doer (or doee) – for example, getting married, dying, going somewhere. For these verbs, ている means “is now in the state of having done it”.

    The trick is that it can sometimes be difficult to tell which is which. For example, 乗っている (“I’m riding [a train]“) looks like a continual verb, but it’s actually a state verb (“I’m in a state of having boarded the train”). Coming and going can take time, but since they result in a change of state, they’re state verbs, not continual verbs.

    I haven’t got my grammar dictionary on me at the moment, but I’m inclined to say that Koichi’s usage in the example sentence is wrong.

    March 20, 2013 at 6:25 pm #39178

    vanandrew
    Member

    Thanks Joel, that’s great, some good explanations.

    TK talks about “state-of-being” & “enduring state of action”, which I take to be the verb types you’re talking about.

    March 20, 2013 at 7:34 pm #39179

    Astralfox
    Member

    Thanks, I feel like I’m a little closer to comprehension.

    One of the comments on the Tae Kim page says that the ‘enduring state of being’ and ’enduring state of action’ verbs are decided by whether they are intransitive or transitive respectively. That sems to make sense, but is it really so clear-cut I wonder?

    March 21, 2013 at 2:15 pm #39192

    Joel
    Member

    Yeah, looks like “enduring state of being” and “enduring state of action” are the same thing. (I wouldn’t call them that, though. The names could be a little confusing.)

    As for a difference in meaning between transitive and intransitive, I’m pretty sure that’s just for the てある form, and it’s not quite the same thing. Both are descriptive of a resultant state, but Vintrans-てある expresses the result of a non-intentional action, while Vtrans-てある expresses he result of an intentional action.

    For example:

    ビールを冷やしてある = The beer has been chilled (because I put it in the fridge)

    ビールが冷えてある = The beer has been chilled (because it… got left outside in the snow? Bad example, maybe)

    ビールが冷えている = The beer is cold

    My textbook notes that verbs like 入る and 乗る are never used in てある constructions, only ている.

    March 23, 2013 at 3:45 pm #39219

    vanandrew
    Member

    Thanks Joel.

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