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So is it like learning english from an american versus a brit; there’s differences but people will still understand you?
Kinda. More like you’re learning spelling from an American versus someone who can actually spell words properly. The pronunciation is exactly the same.
You’re not going to be using Romaji on a regular basis, though, are you? =)
Learning Kansai-ben, on the other hand, is like trying to speak with a Scotsman. =P
So is it like learning english from an american versus a brit; there’s differences but people will still understand you?
The difference is that American English is the way English should properly be taught and used in America.
British English is the way that English should properly be taught and used in Britain.
Romaji is not used by the Japanese people. So it’s simply a tool to allow English language learners to start to learn Japanese words in writing before they learn to do it properly in Kana and Kanji. Since you are using foreign letters to try to approximate a Japanese sound, there can be multiple variations that do a good job of it, but since it’s never actually used in Japanese, there is no correct way of doing it. The systems developed are simply for clarity and standardisation purposes, so if you are familiar with the system, you know what to expect.
I think the sound of しゃ is kind of a mix between “sha” and “sya”, but it makes more sense to me to write it as “sha”.
@Joel: “More like you’re learning spelling from an American versus someone who can actually spell words properly.”
Ha! ;)“Learning Kansai-ben, on the other hand, is like trying to speak with a Scotsman”
I can attest to that. Our version of English is pretty out there… I feel bad for the foreign students – especially Japanese people – that come here thinking they know English only to be met with that >.<
The teacher at the Japanese class I go to used to be a student here. She said she got a job as a waitress to practise English (as advised by her own teacher back home) but could barely understand what anyone was saying, just having to nod and say “Aye (yes)” and “Ah ken (I know)” a lot :PClarity! I understand. Joel- i promise i’ll get off the romaji as soon as i can! but i’ve only been learning for like 2 months, so i’m still trying to get all the sounds and pronunciation down.
Thanks all.
I think the sound of しゃ is kind of a mix between “sha” and “sya”, but it makes more sense to me to write it as “sha”.
Trouble is, that loses any differentiation between しゃ and しぁ.
just having to nod and say “Aye (yes)”
I’ve always enjoyed the word Aye, so it amused me to find Japanese had nearly the same thing in Hai. :)
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This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by
JoshuaJSlone.
And when, pray tell, was the last time you encountered しぁ in the wild? Or even シァ? =P
I can attest to that. Our version of English is pretty out there… I feel bad for the foreign students – especially Japanese people – that come here thinking they know English only to be met with that >.<<br>
I used to watch Hamish Macbeth on TV, so I thought I at least had a fair idea of what Scottish sounded like. When I first visited England, though, and spoke to a real Scotsman, I couldn’t make heads or tails of it at all. Someone nearby had to translate. =P
Embarrassing admission–I was getting katakana instances of シャ and シァ conflated, with the little ya and a characters looking similar enough. It does seem to happen, though at my level I can’t tell what’s going on with those examples. Maybe they’re intentionally going for a nonstandard spelling–I know that happens enough in English.
@Joel: I’ve never actually seen Hamish Macbeth so I had a look at it on YouTube. I think because it’s a TV show, they’re trying to pronounce their words a bit more clearly, plus it seems to be a certain accent I can’t quite place. With a name like Hamish Macbeth – and the setting they’re in – I’m guessing it’s a more northerly accent. Most people live in Central Scotland, where Edinburgh and Glasgow are, so it’s likely you met somebody with a totally different accent. Even for other Scots, the Glaswegian dialect can be tough at times :P
If you want to get accustomed to real Scottish people, you’d be better off watching something like Burnistoun or Limmy’s Show, both sketch shows by comedians from Glasgow (to be fair, I don’t have as thick an accent as these guys, neither do most people in Edinburgh):
Have you had a look at Hiragana42?
http://www.textfugu.com/dashboard/
Should help.
The only thing that still kills me occasionally is – め and ぬ<br>
わ, ね, and れ used to get me as well, but I no longer have any problems with them.I can’t stand め ぬ わ ね れ! They STILL get me and it’s been months!
If you want to get accustomed to real Scottish people, you’d be better off watching something like Burnistoun or Limmy’s Show, both sketch shows by comedians from Glasgow (to be fair, I don’t have as thick an accent as these guys, neither do most people in Edinburgh)
Yeah, I’ve been assured that Glaswegians are particularly incomprehensible. I was in Edinburgh for a day in June/July 2012 and didn’t have much difficultly – though I don’t really recall speaking to many people.
@Viexi: LOVE your avatar :D
Perfume are just superb.@Joel: You were in Edinburgh? Maybe we saw each other and didn’t even know 0_0
It *is* a entire city but it’s possible.Considering how foggy it was that day, I didn’t see much of anyone. =P
If it helps you jog your memory at all, I think I was wearing a red hoodie. =)
I can’t stand め ぬ わ ね れ! They STILL get me and it’s been months!
The following from earlier in this thread really helped me:
@Aikibujin … I learned to remember ね and ぬ because they both make ‘nuh’ sounds (ne and nu) that go along with their little ‘noose’-like loop … ne, nu, noose loop, ね、ぬ…
And I learned hiragana ten years ago. :P
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This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by
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