Home Forums The Japanese Language Kanji and Radical Confusion

This topic contains 24 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Aikibujin 12 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #33528

    Jacqui
    Member

    So I was just sitting there, reviewing my Anki decks like a normal person, when all of a sudden they throw a wild card. First a Kanji with one meaning, then a radical with the same appearance and a different meaning. How do I know when which Kanji is which and which radical is where and when to use which Kanji reading for different words?

    #33532

    kanjiman8
    Member

    Radicals are really just to help you identify a Kanji. I don’t really review them that often once I’ve initially learnt them. I suppose they are beneficial when you get to more complicated Kanji though. Which Kanji and Radical are you referring to?

    #33548

    Aikibujin
    Member

    As far as I’m aware you are suppose to import the Kanji and Radicals into separate decks.

    I have 3 decks that I use with Kanji:

    TF Radicals
    TF Kanji
    TF Vocab

    And I believe Koichisama does get you to separate them this way. I’m not sure which season you are on, but maybe there was a typo/mistake where he got you to import a radical deck into your Kanji deck, or you read it wrong?

    Generally speaking as far as distinguishing when a specific Kanji is pronounced a certain way, it will depend on what it is grouped with: if it has multiple Kanji together, or it’s by itself, you know it’s the ON reading, if it is grouped with hiragana you know it’s the KUN reading. Koichi has said this of course in the text, but you might forget that, don’t know how advanced you are. If it’s unclear whether they want the meaning or reading, just come up with both, so you know that you know it.

    I think the deck thing is probably the main source of your confusion though.

    • This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by  Aikibujin.
    #34954

    Jacqui
    Member

    Thank you! :) Sorry so late of a reply, but you were right, it was deck confusion. I’ll be sure to be more careful in the future! :D

    And, no I’m not very advanced. Just starting Kanji and Radicals, still trying to wrap my head around the two. Somehow trying to distinguish and remember all the mnemonics is messing with my head, and I’m attempting to find the happy medium.

    #34956

    Aikibujin
    Member

    I think there’s a typo in TF somewhere, though I’ve now seen this mentioned somewhere else before:

    “if it has multiple Kanji together, or it’s by itself, you know it’s the ON reading”

    That was from Koichi, but it’s actually the KUN reading most of the time when they are by themselves, except for numbers and a few other exceptions.

    #34968

    Joel
    Member

    I’m confused, though – what radical has a different meaning to its kanji version? I can’t think of any off the top of my head…

    #34969

    kanjiman8
    Member

    This is still the best explanation on the on’yomi and kun’yomi readings I’ve come across.

    Credit goes to Tsetycoon:

    The official rule is that if there is JUKUGO, or compound-kanji (at least 2 kanji NEXT to each other), both kanji use the ON’YOMI.

    You use the KUN’YOMI when the kanji is BY ITSELF. You also use the KUN’YOMI when hiragana FOLLOWS the kanji to generate the meaning of the word.

    HOWEVER, EXCEPTIONS are ALL OVER THE PLACE. A kanji by itself may favor the on’yomi, and two kanji in jukugo may favor the kun’yomi. A jukugo may even have on’yomi for one kanji and kun’yomi for the other!

    I usually try to just know the actually word in the first place, and then understand how the reading of the kanji works. I’d say that despite these rules, at least 45% of all words have these reading exceptions. 

    #34987

    Neil
    Member

    @Joel

    Off the top of my head the radical for writing is doll.

    #34988

    Joel
    Member

    Writing as in 書く? That’s a brush radical plus a sun radical. But I’m reasonably sure we’re talking about characters where the whole character is the radical, like 糸 or 巨. I was, in any case. =)

    #34989

    Neil
    Member

    As in http://www.textfugu.com/kanji/文/#top

     

    Why can’t I get the html to work on this site?

    • This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by  Neil.
    • This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by  Neil.
    • This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by  Neil.
    • This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by  Neil.
    #34994

    Joel
    Member

    That’s the literary radical.

    … Has Koichi been inventing things wholesale again? Frankly, if Koichi’s mnemonics are confusing you, your best bet is to dump it and come up with your own. I’ve actually noticed a number of places where I’ve learnt a radical differently to how he’s teaching it, so I just ignore his version.

    #34995

    kanjiman8
    Member
    #34996

    Neil
    Member

    @ Joel

    What’s the difference, I’ve only been doing this since June?

    #34997

    kanjiman8
    Member

    Joel’s basically saying he doesn’t learn Radicals on TextFugu anymore because he prefers using other resources.

    #34998

    Joel
    Member

    Well, that and I’ve also been a bit slack at keeping up with TextFugu lately. =P

    Basically, the 文 radical and the 文 kanji are one and the same. Memorising them using different mnemonics is, in my opinion, a bit weird. It’d be a different matter if kanji with the 文 radical tended to have doll-related meanings, but they’re almost invariably literacy-related, or at least can be construed as such. He’s also ignored the etymology behind a few other radicals by giving them completely different names – for example, the four dots at the bottom of 黒, which Koichi calls “fish tail”, are actually the fire kanji 火 in bottom-radical form.

    But yeah, don’t listen to me too much – if it works for you, stick with it. =)

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