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Hey guys,
I’m a little confused with the first Kanji vocab deck. We are taught that when a Kanji is on it’s own, we use the On’yomi reading, and when with hiragana the Kun’yomi. This was finally starting to make sense with words like 二人 for this we use the kun’yomi which is ふた this also works for 一 & 九 when adding a counter we use the kun’yomi.
Why is it different when using the Kanji: 七 This on it’s own should be read as しち and if we follow the pattern of all other Kanji with counters we should use なな (The kun’yomi). Why then is 七人 pronounced as しちにん and not like ななり or even ななにん?
Regards,
Stark
First here is the link: http://www.textfugu.com/kanji/%E5%88%80/
It states: “The reading is the kun’yomi reading, because it’s just a single kanji, sitting all alone”
However Koichi states here: http://www.tofugu.com/2010/03/23/the-types-of-kanji-in-japanese-onyomi-vs-kunyomi/
“In general, you’ll use on’yomi when a kanji is sitting there all on its own”
Really? I’m utterly confused ARGH :) Anyone have some insight?
The Tofugu article contains a contradiction in and of itself (read the comments at the bottom of the page). The first quote is the correct ‘rule’.
As for 七人; counters are just wierd all over the place. The rules are often ‘rules’, and I presume that would be the same in any language.
Incidentally, 七 is a bit of a weird one, in that its readings tend to be fairly interchangeable.
Oh. My. Christ.
But it seems that when it is a number, and it is the Kanji all on it’s own we use the On’Yomi instead of the Kun’Yumi?
So to clarify, for myself ;) 9/10 if the Kanji is stood alone we use the Kun’Yumi reading. If the Kanji is combined with different Kanji we use the On’Yomi (9/10) and if the Kanji has kana after it we use the Kunyumi reading… but throw all of this out the window when it comes to numbers, or counters? Sound about right?
:) I finally see why they say Kanji is difficult, and I haven’t even really started.
Oooooor… you could just learn the word and not bother whether it’s on or kun? Also works and there’s less hassle involved :P
The people who say learning kanji is difficult are either doing it wrong or aren’t actually learning the language XD
If I may, allow me to rephrase MisterM’s comment.
Kanji is difficult for you because you just started, and when you first start learning anything, trying to fit new knowledge into a rigid framework is natural and often useful.
My advice, and the advice of may others (including Mr.M, unless his past posts have deceived me), is to learn words as entities in and of themselves. This way, you will pick up the reading of the kanji from the words as opposed to learning the readings first and trying to glue them together.
TLDR: Don’t bother learning kanji readings explicitly.
TSRTF: http://www.textfugu.com/bb/topic/onyomi-vs-kunyomi-the-question-as-old-as-time/OK, so this is my last post in here ;) I’ve done a lot of research, and have a couple of set rules that really helped my understand.
On’Yomi when it is with other Kanji (We also use this for numbers on their own)
Kun’Yumi when on it’s own, or with hiragana sticking out however… my confusion arose with counters and this really is a must read before starting your second Kanji Vocab deck http://www.tofugu.com/guides/japanese-counters-guide/
Good luck everyone! :)
Thank you for rephrasing my thought, Kyle; that makes it sound better. I totally agree, kanji can be hard when you’re first starting out, but once you get your bearings and hit upon the right method for you, it really shouldn’t be much of a struggle. It may be a bit of a monotonous task since there are so many and it takes a while, but that’s more a case of boredom than actual difficulty learning each one.
@Stark: You’ll come to not care about whether readings are kun or on eventually, just give it time ;)
@MisterM2402 You’re right, it’s two days later and it’s already starting to make more sense :) WaniKani is a HUGE help, I seriously recommend it along-side TextFugu – Now time to kick grammars ass (I thought it would be the most difficult, how wrong was I :P)
ありがとう
じゃーね
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