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(Apologies if this has been asked… I tried searching, the search didn’t work.)
Are there good examples and tips for a lowly British English (with slight-Yorkshire accent) speaker?
All the examples I’ve seen of how to speak the “R” sounds seem focused on either American English, or say how “lucky” or are to be Spanish. Or the comments are overwhelmed with people saying how thankful they are for being Spanish (or similar).
I am struggling to pass through the “R” badlrier, er, barrier. Tomorrow will be day 3, I *really* want to make sure I can say this column before moving on, as I feel getting the sounds correct is a very important part of learning the language.
It is a separate learning centre in my head that hasn’t been used for a long time and is actually sticking. Having had problems with memory for nearly 20 years, it’s exciting to find Japanese is actually staying around. However, I’m worried if I can’t get past this problem, my ADD will start becoming a problem.
So any help will be greatly appreciated.
No specific tips sorry, but I can tell you it’s not that big of a deal.
Until you’ve spent a lot of time speaking Japanese in Japan (if even then) the Japanese you speak to will almost always hear the difference even when you don’t.
In fact it can actually be psychological in nature, so even if you replicate it perfectly they may hear it differently as that is what they expect to hear from you.
That said, it can also work in reverse, in that even if yours is a bit off, if you speak fluently enough with good pronunciation otherwise, they may stop hearing it if they talk with you often enough.
In my opinion, this should be one of the last things you should worry about in learning Japanese.
That said if you really can’t stand not getting it, best place to look is youtube. They will show you where to put your tongue and other weird things and you can actually hear how they do it.
-Cheers
This is why I’m considering getting a tutor for a short while. You can find some ads on Gumtree or at Tutor Hunt, to name a couple. Prices vary from £15-$35 per hour. Personally I think it’s worth paying a little to get the pronunciation right at the beginning.
My first plan before finding this site was the local university, but I missed that by about a month. My next port of call will be a night school.
I think I need some physical interaction with others and actual feedback, also the motivation from doing this will be of great benefit…
…now to just find one in this city of mine…. and kick myself constantly until I do it.
“All the examples I’ve seen of how to speak the “R” sounds seem focused on American English”
What’s wrong with that? Surely having lived in a non-US, English-speaking country for so long you’re used to American English via the inundation of US media through every channel? :P If someone describes Japanese ‘R’ as being like the ‘tt’ in some American pronunciations of “butter”, can you not imagine that in your head? Or, assuming you’re watching a video about it, just listen to the person saying it?Other than that, don’t get too hung up on it; it’s something that takes a lot of practice and you likely won’t get good at it until you’ve spoken a lot to Japanese people (which won’t be for a while).
The problem is, the vast majority of the finer points of language control is learned in infancy or a young age. At least that’s what the scientific journals tell me.
Saying “Make an L” sound, “Make a D” sound and it’s somewhere in-between doesn’t work for me because I just don’t make the sounds in the same way. The vast majority of what I heard as a child was still British English. My parents and the vast majority of people I meet make the British English sounds. American English isn’t something I learned because I wasn’t something I was physically introduced to, hearing it and making the sound without someone in the room is different.
Also, I have the secondary problem of not making friends, or even acquaintances, easily. I know I am going to have to force myself to. But the UK isn’t exactly awash with Japanese, let alone my home city. I am trying to find Japanese classes already though.
“The vast majority of what I heard as a child was still British English. My parents and the vast majority of people I meet make the British English sounds.”
Well, it was the same for me; I’m British too (Scottish to be precise). What I meant is that there are so many American movies and TV shows and singers that make their way over hear that I assumed most Brits were at least *slightly* familiar with how Americans speak. Speaking as a Scot in particular, a similar thing happened with me and the English way of speaking: most media here that isn’t from the US is from England, so I grew up being accustomed to how the English speak even though I physically grew up in a place where everyone spoke Scottish English.
“Also, I have the secondary problem of not making friends, or even acquaintances, easily. ”
We’re really not that different :PAs for ““Make an L” sound, “Make a D” sound and it’s somewhere in-between”, I think they mean an exaggerated L sound, where you really try and flap your tongue i.e. put your tongue behind the aveolar ridge. What they’re trying to do is tell you where to place your tongue in a way that’s easier to understand than using terms like aveolar ridge that not everyone has heard of. If you’re a cunning linguist (I’m not really) the description on Wikipedia (“Japanese Phonology”) may help: “/r/ is an apical postalveolar flap undefined for laterality. That is, it is specified as neither a central nor a lateral flap, but may vary between the two.”
Like I said before though, you’ve been at this less than a week now, it’s really not something you should fret over too much. If you can pronounce everything else reasonably well, great; the R will come to you in time ;) Focus on learning lots of new words and kanji instead.
Thank you for that. As a very technical person, I do like scientific terms backed up with diagrams, abstract concepts are not the best way to describe things to me (especially when there’s room for doubt).
I’ve forced myself past R, which is quite hard for me to do, it will play in my mind, but I will concentrate on what lies ahead. Having the Hiragana cue cards on Anki will help too I believe. I dare say “R” will be one of those it will be playing to me a lot.
If you’re a cunning linguist (I’m not really)
Benny the Irish Polyglot wears a shirt with that on it a lot ;)
First: ROFL!
Second: That’s a bloody brilliant idea for a shirt. *astounded*
Sure is :D If I didn’t have the speaking skills of an infant, I might just wear one :P
Now how would you say “Speak Japanese with me!” in Japanese…? You see, I’m just not cut out to wear a t-shirt like that!私に日本語を話してください！
You passed the test Joel, buy the shirt!
いいえ、結構です。
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