I will point out however that what Mister explains about learning the readings is something that has nothing to do with RTK at all. Similarly, even the meanings of kanji can be learned through words. Because of this, you don’t need RTK at all because even at the end of your 3-4 month journey of completing RTK, you still end up learning words from vocab decks and end up learning readings and kanji meanings this way. This is what I have been doing for the longest time. I only recommend it just because some people here seem to have been “enlightened” by it in a way that god only knows. I have even tried RTK for 2 weeks with a grain a salt but it turns out that it was a waste of time just like I expected. If the problem is being exposed to kanji a lot more, then theres always immersion, surround yourself in Japanese.

Which leads to me to this question: If you are killing 3-4 (kanji readings, kanji meanings, being able to know meanings of actual words, actual words enabling you to actually read) birds with one stone by learning vocab, then what exactly are you studying when you do RTK or any kanji study method for that matter? ….Kanji? What exactly about it? You learn good study habits? You are exposed to kanji more? All of these have nothing to do with RTK at all.

When I say “I’m off to study kanji!”, I’m really only trying to write them from memory.

• This reply was modified 13 years ago by  missingno15.

@Sheepy: Thanks haha :)

@missingno15: I know it doesn’t have anything to do with RTK, so what’s your point? A guy asked me a question that deviated from the “Textfugu vs RTK” topic a bit, and I answered him.

I understand why you didn’t give RTK a chance – for someone who actually knows a lot of kanji already, it probably feels boring and slow-paced, cause “Hell, I know this shit already, bro!”. But for total beginners, people like me who’d only covered some kanji up to 3 strokes, it’s a really useful, helpful method. Nobody says you NEED RTK, just that it’s a method they like. And yup, we still end up learning words (would be a bit strange if we didn’t), but it’s just so much faster when you only need to learn a meaning and a reading. We’ve been “enlightened” in a way only RTK-completers know ;) It’s kinda hard to explain, but everything is so much easier and fits together so much more nicely after having finished that book. If you start off reading the book with an intermediate knowledge of the language (and only sticking with it for a mere 2 weeks), of course you’re not gonna feel any different.

The “3-4 birds with one stone” analogy doesn’t quite work here. By doing RTK, we’ve started a big campfire and got everything set up to just cook the birds as we kill them. The brute force method you employ is like throwing a big rock (very slowly), and having to light a new campfire, prepare new equipment, for each new species of bird you see. Obviously your bird-cooking skills will develop over time, but RTK-finishers have their own “kitchen” set up all the time. In this analogy, new birds are new radicals. OK so that’s probably not 100% accurate imagery, but it gets the general point across. Basically, it’s all preparation, so you can go into vocab learning with one less thing to worry about. It’s either “kill 3-4 birds with one stone” or “send out a guerilla squad to kill the alpha-bird, leaving her chicks unguarded” (to use a different analogy).

@Elenkis: Yup, totally agree. You’ve put it in words better than I could have haha. I was about to say “you should keep that post and copy it every time someone asks”, but then I re-read it and saw that that’s what you *already* do :P

I have RTK now, I figured I would give it a proper try and I got it for an okay price. If it works out well for me I think it could go together nicely with Read the Kanji.

I’ve done RTK, but if I were to go about it again, I’d rather choose a method that teaches you the kanji together with their readings. Sure, RTK works, but there’s one problem with it: it’s boring as heck. Or at least for me it was. And you aren’t enjoying the process of learning, then you might as well stop. I admit, I screwed up a bit and stopped reviewing for like 3 weeks when I was near the end of the book and so I don’t really remember the meanings of the kanji now (I tried to keep reviewing after having finished the book, but ultimately gave up, because I hated doing the reviews so much).

But I admit, RTK wasn’t a complete waste of time. It forever changed the way I look at kanji. They’re no longer a jumbled mess, because through the book I’ve been trained to recognize the primitve elements (radicals) they’re made up of so it’s much easier to recognize them when reading now. But I still far prefer the method of learning kanji together with vocab. It’s just much more fun.

But I’d say give RTK a try and if you feel it’s working for you, then by all means go for it. It doesn’t teacher you any Japanese, but it builds a strong foundation for learning the language if you stick with it. But if you find yourself struggling through the book, I’d look for another method. It’s important to have fun – Japanese shouldn’t be a chore c:

I’ve finished RTK and would like to throw in my input. It was pretty frustrating, boring, and I felt despondent that I won’t be making any “actual” Japanese progress until it was finished. However, was I glad I did it? Yes I was. I didn’t feel like it was “a waste of time.” Yes it was indeed boring, but can everything a language be honestly fun? If possible, I’d rather not learn the kanji at all, but that’s the system the Japanese have and we need to learn it if we want to become fluent in their language. I started basically from square one, minus maybe knowing about 10-15 kanji from when I was younger, and these were simple ones like 一、二、三、石、木、月、etc. Now I know a very rough meaning and how to write 2000 kanji in near-perfect stroke order. Sure, it’s not “real” Japanese, but it still felt empowering nonetheless. Vocab is also relatively easy to learn as well now. I spend maybe about 2-4 mins going through a new word, regardless if it’s a compound kanji or not. I’m already at 500 words from only a month and a half of studying. I can move at a faster pace if I wanted to, but my work schedule right now prevents me from exerting too much energy into this.

I tried the brute force method before and it simply didn’t work. My reviews ended up being around 2-3 hours long trying to remember only 50-60 words, and I forgot a lot of them. After RTK, I now spend maybe about an hour going through my reviews for RTK (about 50-80 kanji) and reviewing actual vocab (50-70 words) and learning ten new ones. I won’t remember 100% of them, but my retention rate is far higher than what it was prior to doing RTK. It really was a door-opener for me.

I agree with what what Koichi – roughly – said about kanji. You don’t want to learn them the same way a Japanese kid learns them. After all, they spend about 18 years – give or take – learning all of them and we aren’t Japanese school kids with that kind of time. Please at least try it, and if you don’t like it just drop it and try something else. However, I’m a firm believe that this system works and deserves at least a go.

• This reply was modified 13 years ago by  Anden.

It has been a little over a week now and I don’t think I’ll be using it for much longer, I feel as if I’d make much more progress doing 150 cards on Read the Kanji daily than reading this book and remembering stories, stories that are going to increase in complexity as the book progresses. I’ll try it a little longer but it isn’t making much impact on me which is unfortunate. I feel that learning no readings or compounds is detrimental overall, and on Read the Kanji I also get to see the kanji being used in sentences and refine grammar points. This is a tough decision.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 12 months ago by  Luke.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 12 months ago by  Luke.

RTK won’t pay off until later on, so of course you will easily be able to tell the difference in progression from doing vocab study to doing RTK. What RTK accomplishes is to set you at an equal footing with other Asian students familiar with the kanji, their writing and their meaning. To reach fluency a students with kanji knowledge(e.g. Asian students) have to use 1800~2300 hours
While other students(no prior kanji knowledge) have to use 3100~4500 hours

RTK doesn’t take 800-2700h to complete, so it will be worth it in the long run. However it won’t benefit you right now, and I feel the same way being tempted to study vocab or grammar. ^^
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Language_Proficiency_Test)

今はほぼ９００の漢字を書くことと英語の意味を思い出すことができる、しかし９００は十分じゃない。
僕の目処は２月までにすべて２２００の常用漢字をすべて覚えることだ。毎日３０個づつ新しい漢字を覚える。
石の上にも三年。

• This reply was modified 12 years, 12 months ago by  マーク・ウェーバー.