Home Forums The Japanese Language Those blasted numbers

This topic contains 5 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  MisterM2402 [Michael] 11 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #40901

    Hi all,

     

    I’m currently mid way through Chapter 2, and an issue which I thought would resolve itself in time simply isn’t. The different uses of numbers have really thrown me. I understand when to use the on- and kun-readings, but when using numbers to count ‘things’ (as it’s written) i.e. ひとつ for ‘one thing’ etc., I don’t actually understand how this would be used grammatically.

    For example, I tried to write “Three cats” as みっつねこ, but this was corrected to さんねこ. Then counting people appears to be yet another exception! Would someone be able to put the different uses in context for me to understand? It seems a little specific for kun readings only to be used to count indiscriminate ‘things’…

     

    #40903

    Jason
    Member

    This page explains it much more plainly, and gives you a better picture of how the counters fit in along with exceptions:

    http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/counting

    Incidentally, I believe your example should’ve been 三匹の猫「さんびきのねこ」

    #40904

    Thanks very much. Your correction currently means nothing to me – hopefully I can learn about it later on!

    #40905

    Jason
    Member

    Yeah, it is a complicated topic, but it comes up a lot.  It might help to show how it dissects so you can put together similar structures later on.  It’s basically a way of expressing a quantity of something specific, so it takes this form:

    {quantity} {counter} の {specific thing}

    So going back to your example:

    {specific thing}= this is the easiest, we know it’s a cat, 猫「ねこ」
    {quantity}=3 (reading is going to likely be さん.)
    {counter}= since cat is a small animal, we’ll use 匹.  The numbers 1, 3, and 8 typically affect “h” sounding counters, thus the reading changes from ひき to びき

    Then plug those into the formula and bam, さんびきのねこ

    This is only one way that counters are used, and it does take time and practice.  The more examples you see the more it will start to make sense.

    #40909

    Joel
    Member

    Note that when you’re saying something like 三人, that’s not ひと the word meaning “person” but rather にん the counter word for people. So, for example, you can say 三人の学生 = three students. It’s a little confusing, since it uses the same kanji as the things it counts…

    #40920

    I’m also wondering why it was corrected to  さん and not さんびき. Maybe they were trying to keep it simple?

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