This topic contains 4 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Joel 12 years, 9 months ago.
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March 21, 2012 at 3:32 am #28307
Hi everyone! I’ve been using Textfugu for a few months now, and I’m currently a few lessons away from the end of Season 3. I have an important question to ask about Textfugu, but first, a bit of background.
I have studied two other languages in a traditional classroom setting. First, in High School, I studied German for three years, then in college I studied Afrikaans for a semester. One thing I have noticed that varies greatly between Textfugu and those classes is that those classes focused greatly on getting you talking conversationally ASAP. I realize Textfugu emphasizes the importance of reading and spends a good deal of time on that (very important in Japanese since the script is different than English), but one thing I really feel like I need right now and am not getting out of Textfugu is basic useful phrases and words. For example, my other language courses were quick to expose me to the “Five W’s” (who, what, where, when, why, and how) and lots of pronouns like he, she, they, we/us, etc. These are easy words to build basic sentences on. So far I’m a few months into studying with textfugu and I still do not know how to say any pronouns beyond “I” and “you”, and perhaps more importantly I am missing the generic phrases that almost all language courses teach you early on, like hello, goodbye, good day, good morning, sorry, please, thank you, how are you, etc. Speaking of “How are you?” what about moods to answer that question with? Some mood vocab would be nice.
I realize a lot of people taking Textfugu probably already know a lot of these basic phrases from previous experience learning Japanese, from an outside resource, or from anime and entertainment, but I feel these very basic greetings and phrases are pretty important to the basic level of conversation I’m at right now, so here is my question.
Does Textfugu ever cover these things? If so, where? I have browsed the names of the lessons and chapters and haven’t been able to locate this information. Does anyone know of a good free resource online outside of Textfugu that maybe has a “cheat sheet” of useful phrases and some good basic vocabulary?
I really appreciate that Textfugu is engineered to teach grammar from the ground up, but I also feel like after 3 months of learning a language I should know some useful basic phrases like the ones I mentioned above, regardless of whether or not they fit into the scheme of grammar learning at his point. It would definitely help me to start speaking Japanese with others.
So could someone please point me in the direction of useful basic phrases? I would much appreciate it!
- This topic was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Lion.
★ ライオンMarch 21, 2012 at 5:49 am #28314Have you been to another country before? If you have, think about the kinds of things you wanted to say / said. Then work out the translations of them. Then get someone to read them.(Japanese google lady as a last resort will do it for you, at least she does it for me ;-) theres also a site called rhinospike you can submit stuff to be read by natives,) Then you can listen and repeat. For real conversational Japanese you need real people to talk to.
Here are some potentially useful Phrases
Sorry I didn’t catch that, can you say it again slower please.
Stuff like :
Sorry I don’t speak a single word of Japanese.
Sorry I don’t understand Japanese.
Do you speak English?Are not very important at all really because just not speaking Japanese gets these messages across. :D
Heres some that might also be useful:
Is this thing on my plate safe to eat?
Am I doing this correct?
Please can you explain that to me?
Note I’ve left the japanese equivalents as an exercise for the reader. ;D
In my experience phrases really won’t get you anywhere, I can tell you real people never answer the questions correctly / ask the right questions, so when it comes to language learning they are more of a red herring, they can be useful to learn vocab, because you are actually putting stuff in context. Consider the language learning you’ve done so far, how much did those phrases help you? You might still remember the phrases, but would they help you communicate? Have you tried using them?
I lived in France for 4 years and my experience is phrases really are a last resort, there is no one way to say things, people will always say something different, even if their words are 90% of a phrase you know, the 10% that are different will spook you, and the pressure of the situation will make it seem like they are speaking a foreign language [ ;) ]. Phrases are really an all or nothing thing, if someone uses a phrase then you’re fine, but if not then you’re screwed. Oh and nobody really talks like those phrases.
If instead you can think how to build up phrases, or even break them down, then you have a skill that will get you a lot further. You can skip some words, because they might not be needed, or you can ask about the meaning if you don’t understand. Work on building up an understanding of the underlying rules then you just learn the vocab to fill in the blanks.
Also in Japanese, pronouns aren’t that useful for low level japanese because often context implies whether it is he, she, they etc. Also use of those pronouns is not very polite, you would usually refer to the person directly.
I think also Textfugu, maybe isn’t a 100% solution for learning Japanese, its a good resource but it needs to be used with other resources. Tofugu website has loads of articles about other resources you can use. Podcasts etc.
Try listening to japanese podcasts or TV or stuff, to get used to the rhythms and sounds of japanese.
Go to your local library and find their learn japanese audio CDs and listen to them. remembering that phrases are red herrings of course but take away vocab and grammar and pronunciations.
Youtube Japanese videos like Japanese pod 101, etc can be good ways to find out some bits and pieces.
But ultimately the best thing to do is to become super proactive with your Japanese learning. If you find stuff you need to know make a note of it, (Maybe in your japanese learning diary, ha ha, yeah I have one of those, no I was joking koichi I totally have one, don’t hurt me), then you can try and find out, using Jisho.org or something, Then find some japanese forum / resource, and say, hay yuo guise! Is this right. Following this kind of process means you’ll learn more than if someone just gives you some phrases.
Also think about how Text Fugu could be better, maybe koichi does need to add some phrases or something, 1 phrase per pagey thing, just to mix stuff up! If you can come up with a good ideas and suggestions you can email koichi with ways he could improve textfugu.
Heres a good website for some resources
http://www.tofugu.com/2010/04/06/tofugu-100-best-japanese-learning-resources/Ignore their number one though, seriously! ;P
Oh !
Also,
Don’t be afraid to skip ahead to future chapters in text fugu and read them, don’t feel you have to follow the structure 100%, feel free to sneak some looks ahead if theres something interesting or useful you see when browsing the contents page.
- This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by vlgi.
March 21, 2012 at 5:23 pm #28337Thanks for your response, but saying common phrases aren’t useful is really off the mark. I’m not talking about learning phrases like “Do you speak Japanese?” I’m talking about ones like I mentioned such as hello, goodbye, good day, good night, please, thank you, i dont understand, etc etc. These are all very, very basic staples of learning any language and are extremely common. I’m quite suprised these aren’t included as vocabulary in the Textfugu lessons. And yeah, I know a few of them, like こんいちは and ありがとう, but I also know there are many different greetings, a handful of different forms of “thank you”, depending on how polite you want to be, etc, lots of things I need to learn. It’s like you said, there are different ways to say everything, but in following with Koichi’s 80-20 rule (which is a pretty practical concept) I know that there are many common ways people are going to say things and you will usually hear them that way. These phrases have proven absolutely detrimental in having conversation with foreigners in my other language backgrounds. I would have gotten nowhere without being able to say simple things like “good evening” “how are you?” “please” “thank you” “see you later” “have a great day” etc. You get the idea. I want to be sure I can say these things in Japanese in the proper way, which makes it tricky to just look them up on Jisho.org because it doesn’t do the best job explaining which ones are appropriate for what situations. This is why I feel I need another resource besides Textfugu, preferably one that is free, as I’m hard pressed for funds right now. A friend of mine recommended “Japanese for Busy People”, but like I said, I’m broke, so for the moment I’ll have to wait on that.
This is definitely something I think Textfugu could use, and if Koichi doesn’t see this post, I might drop a suggestion with him via email some time. In the mean time I’ll check out the resources page you linked to and see what I can dig up there. Thanks for the intel.
★ ライオンMarch 21, 2012 at 6:23 pm #28338
AnonymousA lot of the kanji lessons in Textfugu have various ‘set phrases’ that do help your conversational skills. These kind of vocabulary phrases are scattered in various kanji lessons.
A lot times, watching Japanese TV and movies have helped me EXTENSIVELY in learning conversational Japanese skills, because the shows help you understand the norm of what Japanese people say everyday.March 21, 2012 at 8:33 pm #28339どうぞ
どうも
すみませんThese three phrases will cover about ninety percent of situations you’re likely to run into. Broadly speaking, they mean “please”, “thank you” and “excuse me” respectively, but they’re somewhat more versatile than the English equivalents.
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