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December 10, 2011 at 6:53 pm in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #22339
Nとして indicates the role or function of something and can be translated as “as” :)
建物として – as a building
I believe 建物としての家 is saying that 家屋 is an 家 in the sense of a building. 家 has a wider meaning, but 家屋 specifically means a physical building. Not really sure how else to put it, but hopefully that makes sense.恵みとして与える – give as a blessing
December 10, 2011 at 4:25 pm in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #22336ブチ is a slang prefix (from 打つ) that basically emphasises the violence in the verb it’s attached to and maybe imparts a sense of striking.
Also note that 消えてしまえ is imperative, and it isn’t past tense. So it’s more along the lines of what Michael said, I’ve also seen it used with a sense of “Destroy!”.
I don’t really see any way it would make sense for “here” to be contrasted with “today” in that sentence.
The contrast doesn’t have to be explictly identified. は can have contrast even in a simple sentence like “テニスはしない”. “I don’t play tennis (but I do play other sports like football and hockey)”. It’s a nuance thing. In this case it’s emphasising that the speaker doesn’t play tennis, but probably does play other things.
“Here” is not being contrasted with “today”. It’s being contrasted with other places that aren’t “here”.
Knowing stroke order and count is useful (sometimes necessary) for looking up kanji in dictionaries (both electronic and paper) when you don’t know the reading.
December 2, 2011 at 7:27 am in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #21747Tae Kim is wrong. This is what the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar says about it:
“In potential expressions, if there is an experiencer, that noun phrase is usually marked by は and the object of action by either が or を.
In general, the choice between が and を seems to depend on the degree of volition expressed in the action the experiencer takes. That is, if his volition is high, を is preferable. Thus, in the following sentences, が is unnatural.
私はやめようと思えばいつでも今の仕事をやめられる。
I can quit my current job whenever I want to quit (lit. whenever I think I will quit it)”It gives another example too, but that should be enough.
- This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Elenkis.
People are paying for a service, if they don’t feel that the service has lived up to expectations then it’s natural that there will be complaints. I’m sure Koichi can handle that, he’s running a business after all.
Back when I signed up the site was advertising a lesson every week. At the start of this year Koichi said his goal was to finish all the basic content by the end of 2011, which was to be 6 seasons or more (this was before the seasons were split in half). Obviously that goal isn’t even close to being achieved, but stuff happens.
I’m not going to complain about spending the money, because hey, I knew the risks when I signed up and I’ve long since moved on to other resources. I still want to support Koichi’s efforts because I appreciate what he’s trying to do and his site was a help to me, so I don’t want to be down on the guy. But at the same time I can completely understand why people are disappointed.
- This reply was modified 12 years, 12 months ago by Elenkis.
Reading exercises are just short stories and articles in the target language that are specifically written to be readable by learners who have gone through the associated lesson. Then the next lesson they will learn new grammar and have another reading exercise which incorporates the new grammar, along with grammar learned in previous lessons so that they build up in complexity as you progress. It provides a good sense of progression and builds up your reading comprehension over time.
I think graded readers would probably be similar and a good alternative (though probably not as specifically structured), but I haven’t seen any that are available to read online. Unless you’re lucky it seems the only option is to import from Japan, it’s a good idea though.
I think Yotsuba is mostly just hard for beginners because it’s so full of casual language, contractions and expressions that learners likely haven’t encountered. I don’t think it’s all that great for focused reading practice anyway as it’s mostly just brief dialogue exchanges (no written descriptions and so on), but it’s enjoyable and that’s important. Reading anything is good. I think some of the popular children’s books/stories are perhaps a bit more useful for practice, but maybe I’m wrong.
Really though, the point was that a good textbook will have beginners reading easy Japanese from before they’re even at that stage, so right from the beginning they’ll be working on their reading comprehension and it will keep improving from there at a steady pace. Of course some textbooks are better than others, and not many are cheap :(
Thanks, I’m talking about structured exercises though that are based on the readers level. For me that made learning from textbooks better than anything I’ve found online (not counting pure vocab resources/SRS). A beginner doesn’t have a chance of understanding Yotsuba, but a good textbook should have him reading easy paragraphs in Japanese right from the beginning, based on his level. Then build up in complexity as he learns new grammar, so by the end he is reading conversations, short stories and articles in Japanese.
It may not sound much, and some may not care for them, but for me such exercises improved my reading comprehension in a way that I was never going to get from just reading short, contextless example sentences on Tae Kim, or in a reference book. I actually went through all of Tae Kim before doing any standard textbooks, but I found there wasn’t enough reading practice in there, and when I tried native material I didn’t understand enough of it to really get any benefit from trying to use it as practice – my reading comprehension wasn’t good enough.
Going through the Genki books and then on to ‘Tobira: Gateway to Advanced Japanese’ (which is written entirely in Japanese, aside from the grammar, and is a fantastic book) improved my reading ability so massively that I can no longer dismiss textbooks as a learning tool. I think some people just benefit from more structured learning and practice, while others do better jumping right into more difficult stuff. It’s good to have to so many options available, and would seem a mistake to dismiss any of them too easily when making recommendations, as we all learn differently.
I think a lot of people discount how useful good exercises can be though, and no online based textbooks seem to have put any effort into this area. Though Lang-8 can largely take care of the writing based stuff.
>As far as textbooks, I agree with missing (again) for the most part, unless you are going through them with a tutor or instructor, they’re not worth it. You can get the same stuff online for free.<
Can you point me towards some good structured reading exercises aimed at learners online? From complete beginner to intermediate?
Thanks!
(That’s meant as a genuine question, I’d love to find something online that replicates everything I can get in a good textbook, so if you know of anything then please share)
It’s だれか (someone) and います (to be/exist).
Not かいます :)
November 18, 2011 at 4:21 am in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #20977It used to be core 2000/6000. When they launched the new paid iKnow service earlier this year they reordered all the words and also added/removed a bunch, at the same time they restructured it into core 1000/2000/3000/4000/5000/6000. Most (all?) anki decks are still based on the old word order.
Mister, とは is often used with negative 言う and 思う. Why? I’m not sure, maybe something to do with the contrastive use of は . I know that とは is used to mark something that is unexpected and the speaker feels strongly about, so maybe it is being used for that nuance in your sentence.
とは is also often a shortened version of というのは, but that’s different.
By basic I just mean it doesn’t go beyond the grammar taught in a beginner textbook. Though admittedly the sentences are better than beginner textbook example sentences that are always kept as basic as possible (reading exercises are a different story though and perhaps the most valuable tool in a textbook).
A couple of typical sentences from early in the intermediate textbooks I’m reading would be:
また、勉強しても必ずしもいい将来があるわけではないという気持ちが強くなっているのかもしれない。
これは、相手の気持ちを大切にする日本人の考え方が日本語に現れている表現の一つですから、「。。。」が使えるようになると、会話が上手に聞こえます。
So that gives an idea of roughly what reading level you’re at after finishing a beginner textbook course (in this case Genki 1&2), in which case I don’t think you would get much value out of “Sentence Particles”. On the other hand, the “Dictionary of Japanese Grammar” series is likely to remain a useful reference even for advanced students.
For a beginner I have no doubts that it would be useful, but I still think DoJG series is the best resource that can be bought.
I’d highly recommend the Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advanced Japanese Grammar books if you can afford them.
The usefulness of ‘Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication’ probably depends on how much you’ve already learned from other sources. From what I’ve seen it’s very basic and if you’ve already gone through a beginner textbook it probably doesn’t have much to offer you. The example sentences would be useful for practice, but A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar has a larger number of those, covers more grammar and gives more information about each.
‘Sentence Patterns’ seems like a useful tool for beginners to carry around though.
RTK is difficult to explain because it can be hard to see the benefit until you’ve actually done it for a while. But the principle of it is that it’s a simple divide and conquer strategy to learning. You break the learning up into separate processes that in theory makes things easier to remember. Think about seeing a Japanese word for the first time and trying to remember it; you have to remember the meaning, how it is read, then you also have to remember whichever complex new characters it’s using that you’ve not yet learned. That’s a lot of information for your brain to memorise at once, just learning the kanji alone is a task.
Wouldn’t it be easier if you already knew the kanji in that word so you didn’t have to deal with that at the same time? Then your brain would just have to focus on remembering the pronunciation and meaning of the word, and associating it with the already known kanji should be easy and pretty natural. So you’re not also having to learn new characters at the same time as a new word. Just like learning words in most other languages.
It’s a bit like the way Textfugu breaks down kanji into radicals that you learn first, in order to make learning the bigger kanji easier. RTK breaks it down so that you learn the characters first, in order to make learning whole words easier.
Now that isn’t going to work for everyone, no learning method does. If you’re the kind of person that has no problem learning 20 new words every day with full kanji and have a good 90% retention of those words, then RTK may be of little benefit to you (or it may let you learn 40 words instead of 20!). But some people find it to be a very effective method, perhaps especially for some of us older guys whose brains no longer store new information as easily as they once did :)
For me, RTK made words quite a lot easier to remember and retain.
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