While I really like his methodology (near-complete immersion) I found it very hard to put into practise. Mainly because it’s very hard for me to be immersed when I have other things going on. It’s relatively easy at home, but I also work. I try my best to have Japanese audio playing at work (and at notable risk to my continued employment) via podcasts and music, but there’s just too many distractions and customers must be spoken to in English (darn customers, WHY YOU NO SPEAK JAPANESE) so the audio is largely tuned out, or switched off altogether if it gets too distracting.

Speaking immersion is also difficult, as I have nobody to speak with outside of the staff at the restaurant I visit (speaking only for a few minutes at a time), which is starting to become very expensive, so I don’t go very often.

But I think immersion would work great for me if I could get it running properly. Case in point, I learned native-level English strictly through immersion and incredibly quickly (granted, I was in an English-speaking country, and much younger). It also worked for Danny Choo, as he managed to surround himself with Japanese speakers. I think it’s a great method, but if you don’t live in Japan, I think you need an environment that allows for that kind of hardcore immersion, which very few people have. Anything less and I can’t see someone making the kind of progress Khatzumoto did.

@KiaiFighter, kanjiman8, クリス, and Andrew: First off I want to thank you all, for the sound advice, the uplifting words, the perspective, and the tough love. It really does mean quite a lot to read it all. Cheers, lads.

I want to also clear things up a bit, I most certainly do not expect that I should get hired in Japan with no knowledge of the language; even in the beginning I knew that was the case. The plan was always to get as close to fluent as possible before even setting foot in Japan, let alone apply for work. I have some prior experience with this, having worked very hard to attain native-level English so I could better integrate in the UK (and then the US). In fact I know that many expats that go to Japan eschew learning Japanese, and then become troublesome about it, I always hated that, and was determined to become the exception.

If I was an employer, say in the UK, and some bloke applied who clearly couldn’t speak English, I’d never even consider hiring him, and rightly so.

But, if an immigrant (let’s say, a Japanese person) who displayed a more than competent command of the language (that is, he’s maybe got a bit of an accent, but he’s clearly fluent or close enough to it), and I turned him down on the grounds that “You wouldn’t understand our culture” or “We’re only looking for white Europeans”, then I’d get some very dirty looks, also rightly so.

And that’s what I’m so afraid of. That after working hard to learn the very best Japanese I could, and demonstrating a desire to integrate culturally as best as possible, that I’d still get turned away for most jobs, simply because of my race. They’d be well within their rights to do so, with that I don’t disagree, but it’d be a hell of a kick in the rear just the same.

That being said, I will most certainly take your advice to heart, and do some thinking about what exactly it is I’m going to do.

Also I apologise to the OP for hijacking his thread. Sorry, mate.

@Bbvoncrumb: I understand what you’re saying, though I gotta be honest, it’s incredibly disappointing to see that it’s like that. As much as I love Japan, I personally think that way of thinking is inexcusable for such a developed country.

But I realise there’s now’t much I can change about that. Japan is apparently still obsessed with that infantile notion that foreigners are somehow incapable of functioning in Japan. That’s really quite sad. Really, all I wanted was to spend my life like anyone else in Japan.

I honestly had absolutely no problem with doing the average salaryman thing and staying in a company for several years like you said. I actually quite like that way of working and was looking forward to it, it’s one of the things that attracted me to Japan. But I guess it won’t really be an option for me because I’m not “Japanese” enough. I’m not sure what I have to do to prove to them that I just want to live a normal Japanese life despite my foreign face.

I’m 24 years old, I’m still “young”, but I’m not getting any younger. I don’t want to waste my time learning to go teach English, that’s just not what I want to do with my (hypothetical) life in Japan. But if that’s seriously all that’s going to be available to me no matter how hard I try just because of my heritage, then I guess I should just forget about this fool’s errand. Sod learning Japanese, sod all this effort for nothing, and I had better learn to like Western life. In the meantime, I really hope Japan grows up a bit.

If it’s in the case of the US they could always just hold a green card, as I did for years until I became a US citizen only a few days ago. Granted I’m not 100% sure how the law in Japan works with this, but I’m guessing that as long as you’re just a permanent resident of your host country, and not a citizen, you can keep your Japanese citizenship.

The same works in reverse in Japan, where if you’re a permanent resident you can keep your original citizenship, until such time as you wish to apply for Japanese citizenship, in which case you’d have to renounce it.

Hashi:
In my experience, the Japanese people who decide to permanently leave Japan are kind of oddballs, which is awesome.

I can vouch for this statement. The owner of the restaurant I frequent is indeed quite the oddball, and he’s also awesome. He always jokes around with all the customers, especially his regulars. The rest of the staff (also native Japanese) are not too far behind him in that regard either!

I can’t really offer any suggestions, but I can at least offer empathy. In recent times I’ve also noticed the “magic” wearing off.

I’ve slowly begun losing interest in not just the language, but in Japan in general. I used to listen to my usual podcasts religiously, nowadays I tend to pull the “eh, I’ll hear ‘em later” card. I haven’t watched anime in months, and I barely listen to Japanese music at all any more.

I’ve begun switching some things back into English, and when I go to my favourite restaurant I scarcely bother speaking Japanese to the staff any more, at most forcing out a weak “arigatou” and not much more.

I haven’t studied at all in what must be a year by now, and despite that I still note some small improvements here and there. But I was shocked to find myself actually feeling “sick” of seeing hiragana and kanji that I don’t understand. At this point, the few vestiges of Japanese “study” that remain in my life are done more out of habit than anything else.

So long story short, all I can say is that I understand where you’re coming from. The most I can offer is to try to go back to the roots of what made you like Japanese again and use the nostalgia to try and rekindle what made it fun. If it doesn’t work, then maybe it’s just time to find a new hobby. :\

I always thought you could on occasion drop “wo” entirely and let context do its thing. Thus, “ringo taberu/masu” would sound right (and I could swear I’ve heard native speakers do just this).*

For what it’s worth, the only word I could find with a proper “wo” sound that would conceivably be used with any kind of frequency nowadays is “ヲタ” which even then is just a slang term.

*Disclaimer: I’m an idiot, so I could very well be wrong. :P

• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by  Gigatron.