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Noun-modifying phrases are simple, easy to get used to, and one of the BEST features of Japanese. That’s just my opinion, of course. But I find myself trying to use them in other languages and getting so mad when I remember that it doesn’t work. The best thing about noun-modifying phrases is that you can start talking anywhere in a Japanese sentence, and as long as you end with a dictionary form verb you can tack on the noun you’re referring to at the end and it’s all good. That sounds complicated, so here’s an example:
Let’s say I visited my Japanese teacher, and I was wearing a necklace my husband bought me last week. When she asked about it, even back when my Japanese was slow and choppy, answering the question would be easy. I could start rambling like this: “Oh, this? Well…last week…my husband…for me…bought…” and once you’ve got the idea across you slap on “necklace desu” and you’re golden. I’ll write this in Japanese, but I have to apologize for my romaji. I don’t have any kind of IME ability on this computer.
Teacher: Sore wa nan desu ka?
Me: Ano…kore? Eeto…kore wa…eeto ne…senshuu…otto ga…katte ageta…nekkuresu desu!” (This is the necklace my husband bought me last week.)
In other words, while in my nervous panic eventually I would remember what the topic was. I’d throw it on at the end and create pretty convincing Japanese. Even though the entire phrase was past tense, the “desu” makes the full sentence present tense.
I <3 them!
I’m going to weigh in and say that I strongly suggest mastering and using the weirder, less comfortable sounds. The reason is because they didn’t evolve in isolation; they represent a mouth-shape and “accent” that reflects in the entire language. The nasal passage closes off before pronouncing a mid-word “g.” To ignore that is to refuse to hear many other places where the nasal passage closes off that aren’t immediately apparent to a non-native speaker. The more you force yourself to do the nasal “g,” the closer to perfect pronunciation you get with regard to the entire language. You’ll hear and repeat it in other places.
In other words, it’s not like they stuck a weird sound in there just to confuse you. It’s natural for them because that’s the way their mouth works when they speak. Language learners should try and capture that as a whole.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by
MomoIro.
If you’re a dude, though, it might be interpreted as “I like this computer.” They’re roundabout like that sometimes.
Joel is right. You can use 本日 in speech, but the listener will probably expect something satirical as though you’re deliberately being formal for comedic purposes. For example, instead of saying “I went to Walmart today,” you’d be saying something like, “I have an announcement. On this day, Sunday, January 13th, I went to Walmart.” Obvious all those words aren’t implied, just the formality of the sentence.
That said, don’t use it in speech. :)
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This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by
My teacher is from Nagoya. I’ll ask her on Wednesday if no one else answers for certain by then.
I second that. The usage becomes instinctive, but until it does use 考える to mean “to think about/to think over” and use 思う to mean “to think/to feel.” That’s not a perfect rule but it works most of the time.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by
Good point. Not to mention the fact that it’s impossible. The way we learned English was through years of babbling along without having a clue what we were saying, being prompted and encouraged by a native speaker in our face the entire time. You just can’t recreate that environment.
Forgot to say, re: Momusu, was favorite is (was) Yoshizawa. I’m so old…
I think that using 第 sounds a little more formal.
@Mark Did I give the group away? :D I’ve actually never listened to Momoiro Clover, nor had I heard of them before Missing mentioned them. The handle is a coincidence. I’ll have to check them out, though!
To be honest, I’m old. I’m a Momusu fan from a decade ago, and no one else has managed to steal its place in my heart, despite the fact that it’s sort of fizzled out. I’m listening to SNSD now, but I’m up for any suggestions. I need some new stuff, for real.
@Joel: I skipped the funkiest pronunciations and took care of them when they came up. He was able to fill in most of the gaps on his own, though.
Isn’t ９巻 still just “nine volumes?” I’d probably put 第 in front to make it ordinal. 第９巻, the ninth volume.
I can think of several reasons why Japan is a better breeding ground for idol groups. For one, a more repressed culture needs more safe outlets for imagination and vicarious existence. Sounds harsh, but I say that as a die-hard idol group fan. There are people in every culture that will respond to this, but those people don’t necessarily make up the largest percentage of their peer groups. For another, Japan is a very we-focused country, whereas America, for example, is very me-focused. We relate better to individual pop stars because we’d rather be individually recognized and validated.
But I digress.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by
Just want to add that one method of memorization isn’t necessarily better than the other; it depends on how you specifically learn and how much of the language you already know. I actually did teach my three-year-old son to read by showing him an English letter, such as A, and teaching him every possible pronunciation without giving context. I held up a flashcard with an A, then said, “/a/, ay, uh, aw.” It was a hair-brained scheme but it worked beautifully. From four years of age, he would read the atlas on long road trips with only minor advice from me. (Use the sss sound of C, not the kuh sound.) He was naturally able to “guess” which sound the letter made in a particular word because usually only one pronunciation produced a real word. (Puh-SIH-fik is a word; Puh-KIH-fik is not.)
But that only worked for him because he’s very verbal and because he already spoke fluent English. I’ve used that same method for learning Kanji with good results, but I’d been studying Japanese for more than a decade before I finally tackled Kanji, so I was already used to the way words are put together and what real words sound like. (For example, tossing a kun’yomi into the middle of a long on’yomi word just “feels” wrong.)
That said, when I tried to teach my daughter to read with this method, it probably went down in the history books as the most abysmal failure ever. She is not verbal at all, and she was so young when I started that she didn’t have a good grasp of English yet. Trying to teach her this way actually pushed her development back several years; she couldn’t read at all until she was six or seven. I ended up teaching her via the sight method instead (learning exactly how each specific word is spelled without worrying so much about WHY, like Kyle described), and she blossomed that way.
All that said, if one method isn’t working for you, you WILL find one that fits you better.
I’m rambling and possibly being pedantic, but it’s a fascinating topic to me. :)
EDIT: Skyle….?
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This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by
Also, in a restaurant sense, 86ing something means making the staff/guests aware that a particular menu item isn’t currently available. There will usually be a grease board or something in the kitchen with an 86 written on top and a long list of everything that’s out.
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This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by
