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  • vlgi
    Member

    The original Japanese number system is used sometimes well as a later one derived from Chinese characters. There are some details in the wiki article

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_numerals

    Japanese is a natural language it wasn’t invented by a bunch of people and given specific rules, it doesn’t make sense, because it wasn’t designed. It has grown organically, and has been affected by many things.

    If you are a beginner, don’t worry about things like this, just learn them, the more you learn about the language sooner or later you’ll understand why.

    I wouldn’t really agree they are exceptions, because with the Japanese language, if you start describing such things as exceptions you end up with so many exceptions.

    As a beginner, you will need to accept some things, if the etymology of every word that doesn’t follow a rule in Japanese, or any language, has to be explained, any beginning learner, is going to get fed up. The way teachers of Japanese get round this, is calling it an exception. Which is just a way of saying shut up and learn it. Its not very honest, and maybe if the etymology of these exceptions was explained maybe it would work better, but thats not how Japanese is taught.

    So really just learn hitori and futari, and hitotsu and futatsu, and as you learn the language you’ll find out why there are these exceptions, and why they aren’t really exceptions. They are only called ‘exceptions’ because Japanese learning is done by trying to force Japanese into the framework of a foreign language’s grammar. Which doesn’t work well.

    If you really do want to find out more about why things liek hito and futa are used, seriously, google it, do some research, what you learn will improve your Japanese.


    vlgi
    Member

    Ok so they are all pretty much normal uses of the number seven. I thought you might have some more exotic uses of the number seven.

    “I’d like to buy seven bananas, please”

    I’d say either shichi or nana is fine here, using the hon counter.

    “Next Thursday is seven days away.”

    Nanoka?

    “This evening, I’ll be watching Seven Wives for Seven Brothers… or The Seven Samurai.”

    I have no idea what seven wives for seven brothers would be in Japanese, is that like seven brides for seven brothers?

    Seven samurai appears to use shichi

    “My phone number is 555-7777.”

    I think either is fine here.

    “The politician swindled seven million yen.”

    Either is fine here too nanahyakumanen or shichihyakumanen

    “What do you get when you multiply seven by nine?”

    I think either is fine here as well.

    Places where I would matter I would say are months, vs, amount of months.

    shichigatsu vs nanakagetsu.

    So my rule was use nana, except where you should use shichi.

    Looking at the above, I don’t really see where my rule falls down.

    That said it’s a pretty stupid rule, it really doesn’t say anything useful. But worrying about stuff like that when you’re a beginner is pretty pointless anyway, so for a beginner rule its perfectly adequate.

    For people who are beyond beginner I’d say, just learn Japanese.

    I can’t really see what point you were making though.

    Did you have a point?


    vlgi
    Member

    That’s why I said

    Take with as many grains of salt as you like.

    Is there really that many places to use the number seven? Or do you mean in compound kanji?

    in reply to: Better ways of memorizing Kanji? #44985

    vlgi
    Member

    Use the kanji,

    Do reading and writing that uses the kanji.

    Even using a method such as spaced repetition will not make kanji stay in your brain, you need to use them, regularly to make them stick.

    Make up sentences that use the kanji and the grammar you have learnt.

    Write them read them etc.

    in reply to: Kanji is confusing #44984

    vlgi
    Member

    The main sites I look at for vocab are jisho.org

    Could you list some examples of sites where you’ve seen it with the dots?

    jisho.org

    http://jisho.org/kanji/details/%E5%85%A5%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B

    I just checked my Japanese electronic dictionary (Casio Ex word plus something something)

    Many of the dictionaries in it use the dot notation.

    I think its a pretty common notation.


    vlgi
    Member

    Forget about on and kun readings.

    on and kun are useful from a linguistic point of view, if you want to take a language and categorise it and work out a grammar, etc. etc.

    If you are learning, it doesn’t really matter if you know what a kun or an on reading is. You just need to know the reading.

    As a beginner there are enough challenges for you, without trying to remember linguistic labels.

    The more you learn Japanese the easier it gets. Once you have learnt your first 120 kanji, and you know the basic grammar, you’ll understand better how the language works, and then maybe you will want to revisit on an kun readings, or not.

    As far as the whole

    nana / shichi thing.

    I’d advise you to use nana, at all times except when you specifically should use shichi.

    Its been explained as shi means death in Japanese, and so Japanese people prefer not to use shichi, except when they do.

    Take that meaning with as many grains of salt as you like.

    It would be nice if any language followed a single set of rules for it all, no natural languages do.

    Don’t consider anything you get taught in Japanese as a rule, they are just a general guideline. Some more useful than others.

    And don’t get too hung up on any one thing. If you don’t understand, make a note, carry on, when you know more Japanese revisit it. And you’ll likely understand.

    in reply to: 2013年8月27日 – な、ふしぎやろ? #44373

    vlgi
    Member

    Transcribing is the word you are wanting.

    Dictating is speaking / reading out loud.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by  vlgi.
    in reply to: Pronunciation advice for これ, それ, あれ #44372

    vlgi
    Member

    Whether the ra ri ru re ro sound like an l or r depends on what comes before / after it, and who is saying them.

    One of my teachers is from tokyo, and one is from osaka and they have different ways of pronunciating them.

    Really, its not a big deal, the more you speak and listen, the better you’ll get at saying them. If you are a beginner, accept the fact you are a beginner, you can’t be perfect right away.

    Just keep learning, and practicing.

    in reply to: Kanji reading collisions #40351

    vlgi
    Member

    There are many homophones in Japanese, (words that sound the same but mean different things) but context will usually give you the idea of which is being used.

    Really its not a great deal different than in English which also has plenty of homophones, http://www.englishclub.com/pronunciation/homophones.htm

    How do you deal with homophones in English? Just do the same in Japanese.

     

    in reply to: Dictionaries for Android? #40094

    vlgi
    Member

    I second AEDict

    I have also heard people rave about Jishop, http://www.jishop.com/android/

     

    in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #39482

    vlgi
    Member

    When using wa to contrast two things you need to mention both things. 

    No, you do not. は is used to imply contrast without stating both elements all the time in Japanese, especially in negative sentences.

    I suppose that depends on whether you consider contrasting and implying a contrast to be the same thing.

    Looks like I didn’t read your post correctly and you didn’t read mine correctly either :P

    Gosh people on the internets are such dicks eh?

    in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #39470

    vlgi
    Member

    When using wa to contrast two things you need to mention both things.

    Wa servers to de-emphasise what it follows.

    Ga on the other hand Emphasises what it follows.

    The extra emphasis of ga adds the implication.

    Its like the example in koichi’s text fugu.

    I hate YOUR car.

    Ga is used to imply that it is specifically your car i hate not all cars. With the implication that there is something wrong with your car, maybe its dangerous or smelly or something.

     

    in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #39462

    vlgi
    Member

    Perhaps but maybe if you had something like.

     

    This year spring has been very rainy, I don’t like spring rains.

     

    I guess that would be something like.

    今年の春は天気がとてもわるい。春の雨は好きではない。

    I’m pretty much guessing all that actually, I am really bad at japanese :) Couldn’t figure how to say it had rained a lot this spring so I had to say the weather was bad. :P

     

    • This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by  vlgi.
    in reply to: The "I found some Japanese I don't understand" thread. #39460

    vlgi
    Member

    O.k., I know が and は are super crazy in that it is very difficult to explain them fully, but could someone clarify what should be used in a sentence I wrote on Lang-8?
    My sentence: “春の雨が好きじゃありません。”

     

    First corrector: “春の雨が好きではありません。”

    I would say this is a valid correction. When writing ではありません is used, じゃありません is typically used only in speech.

    However ではありません is polite form, which when used with a na-adjective like 好き in a diary / journal entry you don’t need to be polite, it is more natural to use the negative plain form of the copula ではない  (with the spoken version じゃない) If you have no idea what i’m on about, you can probably ignore all that :)

    Second corrector: “春の雨は好きじゃありません。”

    The second corrector has は and the first corrector has が
    Is it just a matter of preference? (Does not が identify ‘Spring’ (はる/春)?)

    Its not so much a matter of preference but a matter of meaning.

    Using が is saying specifically rain in spring is what you don’t like and it implies perhaps there are rains in other seasons you do like.  Using は puts the emphasis on the disliking there isn’t really any strong implications as you would get withが. In Such a simple sentence there is really no issue with は or が.

    As far as a correction its a matter of what you are trying to say, either は or が are valid in this sentence, context would probably be important as well, have you previously talked about the spring rain / weather? If so you would probably topicalize using は as its ‘old information’ kind of thing.

     

    in reply to: は and が are going to give me a heart attack… #39458

    vlgi
    Member

    wa and ga aren’t just used for emphasizing what comes before and after. They can be used for highlighting comparisons, linking sentences …

    A simple way to understand one aspect of wa vs ga is to consider how they emphasize, but don’t think that is all wa and ga are used for, because if you see it used elsewhere in a different way you’ll get confused.

    Generally the more Japanese you do the better you’ll get at understanding wa and ga, get a good grammar book that explains the different usages as well. and do lots of reading and writing practice.

    In my experience many learners get caught up on things like wa vs ga and on and kun and all manner of technicalities.

    Just forge on instead of getting caught up and a lot of things become clearer when you learn more. Teaching and learning always starts by making very simple generalizations and then later blowing them out of the water with specific information.

    Also don’t think there is a single right way to do wa and ga, there are stylistic choices and preferences, different dialects and levels of Japanese and context are all factors.

    • This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by  vlgi. Reason: for great justice
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 96 total)